Since there was an expiration on the older releases, I was wondering what the expiration was set to on the newer (0.11.0+) releases. Thanks in advance.
Quote from: CUShane2001Since there was an expiration on the older releases, I was wondering what the expiration was set to on the newer (0.11.0+) releases. Thanks in advance.
Is there one?
If there is, would very much like to know in advance
If there is one, you can find out by changeing the date to 5,10,05 that is well over a year. or it might be set up for more than a year. but that will tell you. let us know what you find. i would do it but i am using a diffrent ver.
Lordtwisted :D
Yes there is an expiartion date to version 11. It no longer works after 2-29-04.
Not to offend anybody but:
What is the sence in an expiartion date ?!?
Can TP still be called FREEWARE then?
Quess not ?!?
Why can't it be called freeware? Have you paid something for it? I know I get it for free.
I'm leaving for a 8 month trip. This mean I cannot use today plus without redownload a new version and reinstall it. Not very easy when you are a backpacker. Any option to remove this?
Quote from: BlazingwolfYes there is an expiartion date to version 11. It no longer works after 2-29-04.
[rant]
Pardon my sincerity by I think that sucks. :evil:
As most of you know, I've been an enthusiast supporter and active contributor of TP since the huge BH thread, but this policy stinks.
Expiring betas make sense when your software is bound to become commercial. Period.
The concept behind FREEWARE means that you can use it how many times you want it, WHEN you want.
Other than that, this policy is just a sneaky way of getting everyone to upgrade, thus increasing the universe of users that can provide feedback and test it. Why sneaky? Because the least that could have been done was to inform us all that those versions would expire in 2004 and many of us were left wondering why and since TP creates a big dependence from its users (since it incorporates so many functionality) it even impacted on some people's "real-life" work.
Let's get one thing straight : as I've said many times in the past, I thank srs for his fantastic work on such an amazing program, AND keeping it freeware...but this policy is very wrong, in my opinion and it was one of the main reasons for my inactivity here in recent months (coupled with lots of work) and also to have asked Eitel to remove me from the moderating team.
Many users (myself included) don't have time to be constantly taking time to update their skins to work with the new versions!
I've noticed that one other active contributer (arbitrajeu) also hasn't been around...I wonder if it's about the same thing ... :roll:
Until I see this issue straightened out, I won't definitely use TP...I just can't afford the program not working anymore on a given date when I need to properly check my appointments, etc, etc.
This is my opinion towards this subject and I hope that the current mods of this forum understand it as a "as-much-as-possible-constructive-opinion"
[/rant]
If indeed there is an expiration date, such information should have been included with the post. Many of us who have spent hours tweaking to our own desire and delight, might not have expended so much time and energy had we know our efforts would be so short-lived. Alas! A word from srs would be welcomed.
Hi,
Another program that also says Freeware and that it started to die and now will be paid is Remover. I find a great "dirt". The first users who in the deep one finish making the marketing and are dependents of these "vitiated" programs... after or pay or are without... I wait that the TodayPlus and its creators think of a different form because the program is more than a simple program has the contribution of some people, the creators of skins, have the users that its necessities adaptam the TP and show for the neighbor who also finishes for using, and in last ranch they make the program to be what he is, the kept TP the ratios is a Linux of the life in the world ppc where all collaborate for a common end! ' my English Forgives any error of expression is bad
If srs want to make some money of the program in the future, fine! I am ok with it! I think he deserves it (for me this is one of the greatest application for pocketpcs) and I will pay.....
The only thing, that I can not accept is that without any notice, the program stops to work because of any expiration date..... I depend on my PDA for my work and by consequence on TP.
I would prefer to have been informed of this beforehand because:
1. I would not have spend some much time customizing
2. I would still be using my previous tools
I am sure that srs will find a solution for this (e.g. a new .exe compiled without this expiration date check) ...
Lightman,
You hit it right on the spot !!!
srs where are you?
What is your comment?
While I can understand everyone's dismay at configuring the perfect skin, only to find that it only works with a version that has expired, I do want to offer an alternative view. In my experience a lot of beta SW is set to expire after a certain date. I've always assumed that this is because the developer doesn't want a lot of old, outdated versions running all over the net and users complaining about bugs and what not that have been fixed already. In the specific case of Today+, if the older versions are still being used, it creates the very difficult situation of trying to make skins compatable with multiple versions of the SW. I'm assuming that srs set the expiration date to prevent having to maintain support for multiple versions of the program and skins. I guess it would have made everyone happier if somewhere the expiration policy was made clearer but it's always easier to think of these things in retrospect. I sincerely doubt that there was any ill intensions here. Just my thoughts - for what they are worth :wink:
ya1950
I think nobody is presuming ill intention from srs. The only point, beside the continual skin rules changing that you have to accept or not is to be able to use your PPC without a PC. Nobody seems to understand this. When I buy a palm, or a psion handheld, I can use it a a whole tool, and I only need to connect to a PC for specific task, syncronisation or program installation. If I want to take my working set of programs and use it as is for months, then I can.
On the other side, remover and today plus are 2 programs claiming to be freeware and having an expiration date set. Of course, you can imagine your dismay when you discover in the middle of a phone call that your program which gives your outlook appointment is not working. This appenend to some PI beta users. In this case, the expiration date is bad because it can be harmfull professionaly.
For today+, this is not the case. You will not be harmed if you lose your RSS feed of weather info. But think about it: If I want RSS feed, or weather info, it means that I'm on the road. If I had a PC to check news webpages, or my desk window to see the weather, I wouldn't need such an app.
The whole expiration date concept makes your Pocket pc dependant on a PC. I will not support a PC peripheral, and I would consider moving to another platform if this method was widespreaded.
Ask yourself a question: Do you like to have office installed on your computer, or would you accept to rent it from internet, without actualy owning it, as Microsoft is planning to do?
I understand the need by srs to show some beta expiration. But maybe this could be by a short message or the first RSS feed always showing "expired, please update" after a certain date?
QuoteOn the other side, remover and today plus are 2 programs claiming to be freeware and having an expiration date set.
Remover version 1.19.4 is still freeware and yes, it has a expiration date.
but
1.) user of Remover 1.19.4 are able to send a ID to the author to get a unlock code.
2.) the author of Remover made a note about the expiration date on his webpage.
3.) the author made a note that he plan to make a commercial version
of Remover > SKTools 2.xxxx.
The commercial version is totally new rewritten with new kernal code, UI and a lot of new features.
QuoteYes there is an expiartion date to version 11. It no longer works after 2-29-04.
are you sure about this date? am using v11 and changed the system clock to feb 2005 to see if it would expire and today+ still works. didn't do a soft reset after the date change though, maybe need to do that? :?:
has anyone else tried this?
No, you don't have to soft-reset your PPC after you change the time. Just re-load the TD+ plugin and you will see that it doesn't work after 02/29/04.
I have tested it with 02/29/04 (works) and 03/01/04 (doesn't work).
A lot of people are talking about how it can be "harmful professionally" to have TP cut out in the middle of a business call or on a road trip, or how you depend on it for your appointment data...
TODAY PLUS IS BETA SOFTWARE.
YOU SHOULD NOT RISK YOUR "PROFESSIONAL" WHATEVER ON BETA SOFTWARE.
IF YOU ARE WORRIED ABOUT IT NOT WORKING, YOU SHOULDN'T BE USING IT
whew. sorry for the yelling, it's just that I can't stand people who whine. Especially about FREE software. Did I mention that it was BETA software?
:evil: :evil: :evil:
QuotePosted: Sun Jan 18, 2004 4:20 pm Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No, you don't have to soft-reset your PPC after you change the time. Just re-load the TD+ plugin and you will see that it doesn't work after 02/29/04.
I have tested it with 02/29/04 (works) and 03/01/04 (doesn't work).
i don't what i am doing wrong - i have changed the system clock to jan 2006, soft-reset, reloaded the tp+ plugin and it still works. seems like my version / build has a different expiration date - if any. i am using v11, downloaded from this forum.
do i have to change the date to exactly 1.march.2004 to see if it works or not?
i will try next to change the date to 10 years :!: from now and see if it still works. any other suggestions?
Quote from: kamileon
i don't what i am doing wrong - i have changed the system clock to jan 2006, soft-reset, reloaded the tp+ plugin and it still works. seems like my version / build has a different expiration date - if any. i am using v11, downloaded from this forum.
do i have to change the date to exactly 1.march.2004 to see if it works or not?
i will try next to change the date to 10 years :!: from now and see if it still works. any other suggestions?
Change your date to anything after 2/29/04 that is still in 2004 and it won't work. Your right it works in 2005 and past that but what good would that do you if it doesn't work for the rest of 2004.
I have tried several year settings. Sometimes TodayPlus disappeared, sometimes not, without or without reset and with or without reloading plugin. I found that I could make it reappear for dates beyond 2/29/04 (those I have tried, including 2010) by unchecking TodayPlus in the Today Settings, resetting the PPC, and finally checking TodayPlus in Today Settings once again. I don't know if this will always work, but it has so far.
So we can say, expiration date is a "feature"
that user can definately do without.
I'll put this "remove feature request" in "feature request"
Simply put,
this feature is driving users away.
It is pitty to lost great skinner´s like LightMan.
@MadTxn
You are too loud, nothing else ...
Quote from: MadTxnA lot of people are talking about how it can be "harmful professionally" to have TP cut out in the middle of a business call or on a road trip, or how you depend on it for your appointment data...
Please learn to read before quoting. It can help you even in your life.
As an exercise, you could try and search any sentence talking about TP being harmfull. I'm sure after a few minutes, you reading capability will improve.
Well this comes as a surprise and I have to say it is an unpleasant one.
TodayPlus is a powerful Software and should there be a plan to make it commercial I would have understood it.
BUT I surely would have wanted to know this before spending hours and hours on the tool skinning and otherwise. Me and I suppose some other users would not have shown this amount of enthusiasm and support for TP and its other users (I did it mainly in the German forum).
It would have been decent to make this clear in advance.
Should there be other reasons than going commercial, this would be a good time to make them known.
@MadTxn :
gorgoroth already made an interesting point about your comment. Constructive criticism from contributing users such as myself is VERY different than mere "wining".
Additionally, you're forgetting one thing : although it is freeware as you mentioned, TP skinners such as myself, LT, rgb08, etc have invested MANY hours in testing, making new skins, thinking of suggestions, etc , so the least we could expect is some RESPECT from that time we invested and be informed of all conditions to use this so called freeware, and that INCLUDES the expiration dates.
-- edit --
I have read the "TodayPlus screen disappeared" post by now and deleted this post, because I see TP is not going commercial.
I understand the need for beta testers to upgrade.
Hello Lighty, it is nice to see you. :D
PS: I am still busy with some software projects ...
Quote from: CharlyVHello Lighty, it is nice to see you. :D
PS: I am still busy with some software projects ...
Hey Charly buddy, nice to see you too :D
Lightman good to see you, I am glad other poeple are speaking there minds, I spoke my mind here:
http://www.dark-mojo.com/todayplus/viewtopic.php?t=1168&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=40
and you should see the responce i got from srs, toatal bull. I toataly agrre with you lightman, i still can't belive he didn't tell us. well It's good to here from you lightman. How's work going?
Lordtwisted 8)
Quote from: LightMan@MadTxn :
gorgoroth already made an interesting point about your comment. Constructive criticism from contributing users such as myself is VERY different than mere "wining".
Additionally, you're forgetting one thing : although it is freeware as you mentioned, TP skinners such as myself, LT, rgb08, etc have invested MANY hours in testing, making new skins, thinking of suggestions, etc , so the least we could expect is some RESPECT from that time we invested and be informed of all conditions to use this so called freeware, and that INCLUDES the expiration dates.
Lightman, I understand your point. I wasn't talking about you or the other people who were skinning, and I apologize for not making that clear.
And gogoroth, I can read just fine. I just used your comments because they stuck in my head, and I've heard something similar from others. Don't get your panties in a wad, or boxers in a bunch... whichever you may wear... ;P
That being said, it seems as if the MAJORITY of comments are NOT from people who contribute. I'm sure it is frustrating for skinners to have to redo their work, however, it is reasonable to expect an expiration date. As has been said numerous times, if you keep old versions around, people will be asking for support for bugs that have been fixed.
Besides, you wouldn't be skinning if you didn't enjoy it. Aren't new challenges fun?
My comment on this topic is...MOVE ON. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I think this continual ranting is getting out of control and is nonproductive. I am sure srs is aware of the general sentiment by now. Most of us now know that there IS an expiration date and that it probably should have been mentioned somewhere with each version (although I know nothing requiring him to divulge this).
I have the greatest respect for all the skinners and can sympathize with their plight, as I too have invested many hours trying to keep the documentation up-to-date with each new version. But hey, no one asked me to create it, and I can quite at any time should I choose to. The same goes for skinning and continuing to use this program.
It is HIS software, and he can do with it as he chooses. We can only hope that he will listen to our requests, as he has done in the past, and follow thru on them.
Quote from: LordtwistedLightman good to see you, I am glad other poeple are speaking there minds, I spoke my mind here:
http://www.dark-mojo.com/todayplus/viewtopic.php?t=1168&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=40
and you should see the responce i got from srs, toatal bull. I toataly agrre with you lightman, i still can't belive he didn't tell us. well It's good to here from you lightman. How's work going?
Lordtwisted 8)
Hey LT :)
fine, still a very busy 2 weeks ahead (at least)
I hope srs changes a bit his approach towards this issue, but at this point, I agree with fishboy : personally, I've made my point and spoke my mind (which I haven't done thus far) so now it's time to move on and see what srs has to say about this and if he intends to change this policy or not.
My 2 cents' worth. I think there are 2 issues. First, that there is an expiration date. Second (and it's separate, I think) - that many people weren't aware of this fact. As noted above, many betas have exp dates - and the reasons for this are good. So, I don't think we should be complaining too much about the mere fact that the betas expire. BUT most betas I've tested have stated up-front that they will expire on dd-mm-yy.
This is a great program, and (until now) this board has been a positive place to visit. So, maybe srs could simply include a clear statement about the expiration date on upcoming releases - and we can all put this distraction behind us????
All the best.....................Scotty
Quote from: MadTxnTODAY PLUS IS BETA SOFTWARE.
YOU SHOULD NOT RISK YOUR "PROFESSIONAL" WHATEVER ON BETA SOFTWARE.
IF YOU ARE WORRIED ABOUT IT NOT WORKING, YOU SHOULDN'T BE USING IT
whew. sorry for the yelling, it's just that I can't stand people who whine. Especially about FREE software. Did I mention that it was BETA software?
The unfortunate thing about this statement is that it ignores the fact that this software already does more than any today plugin out there. Well past what most of us might need actually. The feature set is more than solid enough to have a "stable" release version while continuing with the updates as in a traditional software development model. SRS has made an incredible piece of software but it's about time to quit calling it "Beta" and call it what it really is.
As a software developer, if I waited until everything was completely perfect before calling software a "release" version, I would never release anything.
Wow, I stay away from my computer and I miss a great discussion! :(
I have a few things to say:
1) I am saddened to see we might be losing Lightman (and maybe arbitrajeu too?) over this issue. If it is truly the case, I will be missing both of you and will see you over at Brighthand. :cry:
2) Since SRS hasn't posted in sometime on this broad (SRS's last post to date (http://www.dark-mojo.com/todayplus/viewtopic.php?p=6637&highlight=#6637)), I fear my prediction in point 5 of this post (http://www.dark-mojo.com/todayplus/viewtopic.php?p=6644#6644) is coming true. I hope not, I love this program. :cry:
Well, I also missed what has been going on for the last few days as I have been extremely busy with work. While I have given some input on issues and some suggestions for features, compared to many of you I am more of a leech than a symbiote. However I have a few points to make:
1. As far as I can tell, everyone here thinks this program is at least the greatest thing since sliced bread.
2. We all like the cost. :P
3. We all want to be able to use Today Plus for years to come.
4. Not many people knew about the expiration date.
5. Haven't seen nor heard from srs for some time.
6. Skinners and others have "donated" considerable time to this Beta test.
7. Now that we know about the expiration date(s), we can be prepared.
I also believe that srs didn't inform everyone was strictly an oversight and meant no ill-will. From a programmer's standpoint it makes perfect sense to push people in the direction of a newer version. All the arguments stated on this thread and the other mentioned regarding support of older versions, etc. prove it to me since I manage a departmental Tier 2 support organization for a major corporation. I for one have become rather dependant on this product.
8. My fervent hope is that srs will continue development and release version 0.12.0 to public beta as well as versions beyond that.
The current feature set of Todayplus is pretty good, but it could be expanded. Thus, I propose this: He make a version, with certain limitations and omissions (only 5 rss feeds, weather for 1 city only, no skin support, etc...) and release it as freeware. Then, he sells an enhanced edition (the other drawing them in) with nothing ommited and occasional updates, and both HAVING NO EXPIRATION DATE! Oh, and it would be nice if you had a choice between wizard OR config file.
It's been a long time since I posted here, and whilst I was aware, in passing, of the expiration date issue over New Year, I hadn't realised what a stir it was causing on the forums.
It's great to see the posts getting a little more circumspect in the last couple of days (great post, PowerZ). Perhaps we stand a chance of getting somewhere at last.
Let's recap where we are, if you'll bear with me. We have come a long way since July 2003. We've got a hugely popular, very flexible and functional piece of beta software. Until recently, we had a very constructive forum, consisting of a fair number of very active beta-testers cooperating with a hard-working, talented and committed developer. Features were added regularly, which admittedly was a two-edged sword, but we were moving toward a stable set of functionality and something, most importantly, the developer was "happy" with.
Unfortunately, TodayPlus got a) very public and b) very popular. A successful beta programme is normally much more limited than TodayPlus has become. It is limited because the developer needs to be able to exercise control over releases and deal with "informed" defect reports and suggestions. He can't support a growing number of versions or an endless stream of new users. However, srs being srs, he saw that people enjoyed using his software and let it lie. There were enough regulars on the forums to deal with the new users, and he had enough time to keep the releases moving along. Unfortunately, this growing user base accentuated the problems when the minor glitch over the expiration date occurred.
The expiration date only affected releases prior to 0.11.0, which was released on 18 December, almost 2 weeks before New Year. In that time the whole beta team should have upgraded. Okay, so if we'd known about the expiration date we would have done so earlier, but that's a communication issue, something that's been universally hit-and-miss in the last 3 weeks. The fact that there was an installed base of users out there not ready/willing to upgrade is an issue, but at every turn this software was described as "beta" and people should just be grateful they were able to be involved. srs could, and perhaps should, have closed down the beta to those able to contribute fully.
So, why the expiration date? Well, we've been so busy flaming and pointing the finger, we've not let srs explain why he set an expiration date. Others have quoted the SK Remover example, so let's remember that some cad renamed Remover and sold it on Handango. Sounds like a decent enough reason to put an expiry date on software, especially something as revolutionary as TodayPlus. It could also have been to keep the installed based common, reducing the support requirements. And it could have been the desire to make this beta software shareware some time - this is what all software houses do with their beta releases.
I understand the frustration that people didn't know about the expiration date, although I only really have sympathy for those who have contributed time and effort to the programme. That definitely includes Lightman, LT, et al, who have been quite vociferous in their views on this subject. However, I don't think that this gives any of us the right to shout and scream about this. I invested many hours of my time, putting together my own (amateurish) skin and supporting many people through the forums. However, my investment of time was trivial in comparison with srs' himself. And I've heard the comments that people wouldn't have done so if they'd known about the expiration date. Why not? Until all this craziness, we still had a project, with new versions expected and the prospect of a stable release, possibly shareware, that we could all settle down with. We find ourselves staring into the abyss that is 29th February 2004 because we've dug about 75% of the hole ourselves. Instead of being grown-up about things we started shouting and screaming at the guy who gave his time to create this product. If I were srs I'd probably not be too bothered about giving up more of my time to a bunch of ingrates.
I personally don't know where we go from here. We appear to have successfully alienated the developer, who is probably spending his time looking to his studies instead of coming here to face a barrage of abuse. Perhaps he'll come back once things have simmered down a little - I had more hope of that at the start of this thread than when I'd got to the end.
I totally agree with arbitrajeu.
Like I mentionned on the other post, this is beta software and it's common sense to put an expiration date. Without expiration dates, someone could just get a copy (it's freeware), do some reverse engineering, change a few things and call it their own (i am part of another community 'http://www.ppx3k.com/', and yes, this has happened before...). This is prevented by adding an expiration date (or at least, it helps alot). Well, it doesn't really prevent such actions, it's just funny to see the 'stolen' version not working after the expiration date. The proof that it was stolen.
I just wish that everyone would just stop the complaining, and realize that they have a great program. This is BETA and 99% of betas expire. Lets get back to the job at hand, and enjoy.
Quote from: arbitrajeuHowever, I don't think that this gives any of us the right to shout and scream about this.
Instead of being grown-up about things we started shouting and screaming at the guy who gave his time to create this product. If I were srs I'd probably not be too bothered about giving up more of my time to a bunch of ingrates.
Hey buddy, nice to see you around :)
btw, I think that we DO have the right to complain, provided that complaint is done in a constructive way.
Personally, my biggest (and probably only REAL gripe) is that by not informing users of the expiration date, srs didn't realize that it had an impact on users and some of us, greatly rely on our ppcs to organize our work. Naturally, I'd love to keep using TP and I don't want to uninstall it because it expires, but I need it to be dependable, that's my main issue here.
The other part that bothers me is that he didn't "trust" that info about the expiration not even to the beta testers/skinners, which now gives me doubts about what he can hold back in future releases.
As it's been said previously, we really can't keep calling this program BETA forever...I mean, it's quite clear that it's WAY past beta phase...what we're doing now is updating a product, not a beta software as "beta" is usually known (not 100% functional, very buggy, etc)
Having said this, I do hope that srs can "extract" the positive part of this criticism and also understand that as a result of an already huge community that absolute LOVES this program and that appreciates the great work that has been done thus far.
Personally, I may have to start relying on a different software to handle my appointments/tasks, because I need something that doesn't expire on me and that I can depend on.
As it happened I upgraded from 10.2 between xmas and the New Year and so wasn't affected, however that was just luck as I had a day or two of spare time then. I think the main reason it proved such a problem for a lot of people was:
1. It was unexpected
2. It happened at a time when people are generally busy socialising rather than using their computers
On the run up to xmas and the new year, peoples social life and shoppimg tend to take over and so they are less likely to update during this period because they have a lot on. Similarly a lot of people go away during this period and so are unable to update. If this had happened now rather than then I suspect that there would not have been such an outcry.
W.r.t. TP status as a beta, well when I first installed it near the end of the brighthand thread it was definiteley beta software, there were a number of bugs and basic functionality was being added regularly. Now things are different, TP IMHO reached a level of functionality that was complete enough and was stable enough in the 0.10.x releases as a result the emphasis shifted from beta testing to becoming an end-user product although its official status has remained at a beta state and people are using it like that. The skin makers have been producing ever more complex skins and individuals now spend a fair bit of time again customising these to their needs unfortunately this takes time. Lets say for example that someone made some time and spent a few hours customising their 10.2 skin on 31/12/03 only to find the next day that they would have to do it all over again, undertandably they may have been a bit PO'd because they didn't know about it .
I have been involved in beta test programs in the past some of which expired and some that didn't however all of these required people to specifically sign up for beta testing and then this restricted list of people were sent the beta exe and when errors were found reported these back to the author normally including relevant information about your setup, circumstances that lead to the problem etc. Whilst these forums are great most of what is happening now is not beta testing but end-user support and that is reflected in the types of posts.
As a programmer by profession I can appreciate whty SRS has adopted this approach and I don't think that he even considered the implications of not mentioning the expiry date but I think that realistically the continued beta testing can only go one of three ways.
1. Restrict future releases to the advanced test group currently in operation until he is ready to baseline it and produce a stable release. If he needs more people in this open up entry again based on people's configurations in order to try and get the best spread of hardware and software within this test group. This means that all other users won't be able to use it once the current version expires.
2. Declare the next release a milestone and release it with no expiration but no support once its successor has beem released. Have a big sticky thread in all thre forums stating that bug reports will only be considered when posted in the bug report forum and the latest version is being used and stick to this policy.
3. Continue with the current approach but risk less participation by skin makers such as Lightman and the potential loss of user base (beta testers) that would occur if the skins seized to be updated.
The fact that srs still is releasing the software as a beta obviously means that he is not happy with it yet to declare a stable release version and that is his prerogative however I know that personally I would almost never release any software if I waited until I was happy with it, because there is always something that you can improve or some new feature you can add. Sooner or later you just end up saying its good enough and I will continue tweaking it when possible but its time to send it out of the door.
TodayPlus is a great program and I will continue to use it regardless of which of the three approaches above are adopted or if a stable release version is produced and have gained sufficient knowledge and patience to be able to tweak my skin of preference to keep it working should the author decide to stop working on it. My preference would obviously be a stable release version, but I think that if srs does wish to continue with beta testing for the time being then the milestone approach is the next best thing to a release as the problem with a release is that users tend to expect support.
just my tuppence worth,
Morpheus
Hi guys -
Arbitrajeu, nice to have you back - I have just one thing to add to your post -
ditto!!! :!:
Lightman - love your skins for both TP and for Wisbar Advance but cannot agree with you on this topic.
1. TP is beta software until the developer says its not, not when the user community feels it should be.
2. In reading the forums there is certainly evidence of some issues with TP
0.11.0 that suggest that, great as it is, it is still not ready for prime time.
3. Beta software is, by definition, not guaranteed in any way to fulfill your requirement of "but I need it to be dependable, that's my main issue here". You are experienced and intelligent enough to know this. :D
4. TodayPlus didn't expire on you, version
0.10.x expired on you. TodayPlus in its current version continues to provide all the capabilities of
0.10.x (and more). Simply upgrading to the latest version didn't break any of the previous skin related functionality.
5. TodayPlus doesn't "handle my appointments/tasks" beyond simply displaying them and prioviding access to the underlying POOM application (Pocket Outlook, PI or Agenda) which really does "handle" them. In fact, the POOM area is one area of TodayPlus which still needs some work and would benefit the most from a wide group of users beta testing the product.
6. Perhaps a case could be made for the argument that srs should have announced the expiration date - but had we all upgraded to
0.11.0 when it was released we would never have even known the earlier version expired :shock: . Is srs then at fault, because the user base didn't take advantage of the newest version of the software?
In general:
Many users of this software seem to be under the impression that the development process for this incredible little piece of software is not just democratic, but collective (in the "collective farming" sense) as well. I prefer to view it as a benign dictatorship :wink: . srs does, and should continue to do, whatever he wants to do with the software. Hopefully, he has a few trusted advisors that can whisper words of advice in his ear every now and then. But the final call is his.
I have already agreed with Arbitrajeu's post in this thread but wish to emphasise my agreement with his sentiments and especially with this part:
Arbitrajeu wrote:QuoteHowever, I don't think that this gives any of us the right to shout and scream about this.
Instead of being grown-up about things we started shouting and screaming at the guy who gave his time to create this product. If I were srs I'd probably not be too bothered about giving up more of my time to a bunch of ingrates.
I'm really getting tired of all of this carping about an expiration date on a version of the software that was outdated anyway. Again, if the user base had bothered to update to the later version in time, the expiration date would not even have been noticed. This incessant moaning about a ridiculously trivial item makes me groan every time I see a new post on the topic. I'm really starting to worry that srs has looked at all the griping and decided drop the whole thing, concentrating instead on developing his great software for the best user of all - himself.
Please, lets move on.
Regards
swm1605
Quote from: swm1605Again, if the user base had bothered to update to the later version in time, the expiration date would not even have been noticed.
Hey :)
As you said, we don't agree on this, so I will not bother to rebate your arguments about my position (btw, has this really become a LightMan issue when so many people are complaining?)
What you're forgetting is that upgrading to the newer versions isn't just a snap and can be very problematic at times.
The famous automatic-soft-reset-cycle that inevitably leads to a hard-reset has happened to me several times (and other users reported it here as well) when upgrading from 0.98 to 0.10 or from 0.10.1 to 0.10.2/or 0.11 , so it's really not THAT simply to upgrade. It takes time to make sure that one's skin is ready to be used with the new version.
For instance, I took my 0.10.2 skin and put it in 0.11 and the POOM simply didn't work. How's that for an upgrade motivation?
Of course, that's bound to happen with beta software and that's not the point here, it's just to make the point that upgrading one's skin to the newer versions isn't immediate, it isn't transparent and it can be VERY troublesome, so maybe that's why so many users stick with slightly older versions sometimes.
Again, this is beyond the point of this discussion. Then again, maybe not...
At this point, I do feel I can't bring anything else positive to this discussion (or TP as it stands now), so I will rest my case here :)
Hi, I like TD PLUS, and dont like the fact that I have to reinstall it every time it expires.
But, in its current state I am willing to pay for it if the expiration date is removed!
Lets say we pay 9.99 like dashboard for a lifetime upgrades or maybe a range of version upgrades.
I am a registered user of dashboard since 1.0 and I am still using it alternatively with today plus.
Maybe I should wait until TP is finished....
:roll:
Ok, I didn't know about the expiration date, either. Oh, well.
If srs believes his software is still not ready to go gold, well, then I have to agree with him. Version 10 slowed my PPC down to a crawl, and I was glad to see 11. People on other forums say TP is too difficult to use (I'm guessing they, like I, don't want to learn to write a script to get the desired effects), and srs was beginning to make configuring TP less of a challenge; perhaps he wants to do more in that direction. Folks, there was a great OS out there decades ago. I think it was called Berkely Unix. It wasn't easy to use, so only the geeky Unix folks had any fun. Microsoft showed up and hid the code and commands from us (behind pretty pictures), so we didn't have to learn them, and Windows sold lots of copies. Computers ended up in peoples homes.
Sorry. I get very angry with Microsoft for selling stuff before it's ready (even though it means job security for me). I'm just not ready to be ticked with srs for doing the opposite.
I'm gathering (I did read through all 3 pages, but I might have missed something) that version 10 stopped working at the very end of 2003. The timing on this could have been better; many people are traveling between the last two weeks of December and the first week of January. I think I was only aware of the new version, because of the RSS feed...or was it the desktop buddy for PDACorps?
srs, if you're at all listening, I'm afraid that no matter how good a product (and I think yours is very good), you will never be able to please everyone. Think of it this way: you attracted so much negative attention, because you attracted so much positive attention! Don't let this experience make you bitter or deter you in pursuit of your goals. Yeah, a few people screamed possibly hurtful things at you...but how many times have you smiled, because people said wonderful things about your work?
Ok, I'm done. I wanna see pretty pictures, now.
Quote from: MadTxnTODAY PLUS IS BETA SOFTWARE.
whew. sorry for the yelling, it's just that I can't stand people who whine. Especially about FREE software. Did I mention that it was BETA software?
:evil: :evil: :evil:
I can't see any *beta* word here:
http://www.dark-mojo.com/todayplus/viewtopic.php?p=5112
Why???
Isn't it a beta???? :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
MS's beta programs contain something like:
"this program is a beta version and it will expire after (date)
Use it at your own risk!"
Why TodayPlus not? :evil: :x :evil:
Quote from: K-LineQuote from: MadTxnTODAY PLUS IS BETA SOFTWARE.
whew. sorry for the yelling, it's just that I can't stand people who whine. Especially about FREE software. Did I mention that it was BETA software?
:evil: :evil: :evil:
I can't see any *beta* word here:
http://www.dark-mojo.com/todayplus/viewtopic.php?p=5112
Why???
Isn't it a beta???? :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
MS's beta programs contain something like:
"this program is a beta version and it will expire after (date)
Use it at your own risk!"
Why TodayPlus not? :evil: :x :evil:
It's not right to react like this!!!
Why would srs called his program
0.9.8,
0.11 etc.
When you download the program, you will see that there are new features, bug fixes etc Enough indications that is is a Beta!!!
And when you go to the Portal Home of this forum (when you first clicked to this website) you can read that it is a BETA
http://www.dark-mojo.com/index.php
Next time when you post something like this, think!
All this complaining is non productive, and down right annoying!! If people want to complain, use the off topic section, so the rest of us don't have to see it.
This thread is incredible...................................
don't forget the soft in question is free and isn't
vital importance for use your ppc.
thank's in advance to the developer for your job.
Mario
Quote
It's not right to react like this!!!
Why would srs called his program 0.9.8, 0.11 etc.
When you download the program, you will see that there are new features, bug fixes etc Enough indications that is is a Beta!!!
And when you go to the Portal Home of this forum (when you first clicked to this website) you can read that it is a BETA
http://www.dark-mojo.com/index.php
Next time when you post something like this, think!
I did wonder why the weird numbers...
However, by the features & fixes, we could all assume that Windows XP is a beta, too.
I don't remember how I first got here. I'm relatively certain that someone on a forum or site dedicated to PDA programs had a link I followed. It may not have been a link to the portal page. Now, I have a bookmark of the forum index, so I probably never even see the portal page. It's easy enough to get TP without seeing the Beta notice, is what I'm thinking.
Anyway, I am not doubting that TP is a beta. I'm not trying to vilify srs. I just had to point that out. If he wants to keep on working with this, I'm willing to download it.
:)
Quote from: NielsracingIt's not right to react like this!!!
Why would srs called his program 0.9.8, 0.11 etc.
When you download the program, you will see that there are new features, bug fixes etc Enough indications that is is a Beta!!!
And when you go to the Portal Home of this forum (when you first clicked to this website) you can read that it is a BETA
http://www.dark-mojo.com/index.php
Next time when you post something like this, think!
But why noone answer to force here?
http://www.dark-mojo.com/todayplus/viewtopic.php?t=1166&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=
I haven't seen noone telling that the 0.11 version will have a date expire on 29/02/04 before now :evil:
I don't think that the numbers of the version could suggest that the program have an expire date... a lot of linux program, in beta version, that have 0.0.0.0.1 version doesn't have an expire date :twisted:
So... we are all beta testers!
The beta testers of other companies will have the final product for free... if this is a beta and we are beta testers... we all will have the T+ final version for free, right? :twisted:
All the beta version have ony a simply "TodayPlus is still in beta, so it can only get better." in the http://www.dark-mojo.com/index.php page :roll: not a "TodayPlus version < 1.x are in beta version, the version < 0.11 will expire after 1/1/04 and the version < 0.12 will expire after 29/02/04"
srs knows when the version of T+ will expire but he haven't told it before the expiration date !
If he did, maybe I'll buy the final version... he didn't... and I'll not buy any T+ version, and I'll suggest to all my friends that are using T+ to do the same!
bye
Quote="K-Line"]
If he did, maybe I'll buy the final version... he didn't... and I'll not buy any T+ version, and I'll suggest to all my friends that are using T+ to do the same!
bye
Then you are on the wrong forum, so please stop complaining!
QuoteSo... we are all beta testers!
:!: :!: :!: Finally you understand...
OK. Lets summarize so that we are all on the same page:
1) TodayPlus is currently BETA software (Hey Eitel, maybe you should change the title to "TodayPlus (BETA) boards" so there is no longer any confusion).
2) TodayPlus BETA has an expiration date.
3) With BETAs you are suppose to upgrade with each new release as there is no guaranteed support of prior versions.
4) TodayPlus is an AWESOME piece of software, but use at your own risk.
5) According to SRS's own statements, TodayPlus will always be FREEWARE.
6) FREEWARE does not mean YOURWARE. SRS owes us NOTHING.
7) Ranting/whining/complaing about FREE software is non-constructive and gets us nowhere. If you don't like it, then don't use.
Its ironic, but all this ranting about the lack of notification of an expiration date may have just guaranteed that TodayPlus will permanently expire.
Oh, and to avoid possible future ranting, I quess I should point at that the skin documentation expires with each new release of TodayPlus.
Thank you, as many of us have said before, and I hope this ends all the whining. And I wish your quote doesn't come to be.
Quote from: fishboyIts ironic, but all this ranting about the lack of notification of an expiration date may have just guaranteed that TodayPlus will permanently expire.
Quote from: bbiedermNot to offend anybody but:
What is the sence in an expiartion date ?!?
Can TP still be called FREEWARE then?
Quess not ?!?
Freeware, certainly, but also a beta version !
So would you like definitly using a non finalized application on your machine ?
By using TP, you agree to beta test it and share your comments and suggestions !
That make sense to me...
Quote6) FREEWARE does not mean YOURWARE. SRS owes us NOTHING.
Hallelujah!
And if you don't like it then go spend some cash on Battery Bar & Journal Bar (or the like) and then whine at those developers, you have paid for the privelege!
Iain.
It is time to stop complaining, and if you want just stop using the software. No one wants to continue hearing the same stuff over and over. We have more productive things to do than complain.
THIS IS BETA SOFTWARE WHICH WILL BE FREEWARE WHEN COMPLETE!!!!
I have been watching the messages here for several days. I really don't mean to prolong the discussions here beyond a reasonable length, which I agree would't help with anything. However, I want to express my feelings here by saying that, regardless who's right or who's wrong, I now have much less fervor or desire to tweak or work on T+, because I know that's it' gonna expire soon (I knew a beta would expire, but utterly shocked to find out that it'll be so soon). That feeling is not a comfortable one. I cannot imagine how you good skinners feel about this, after working so hard providing us with those beautiful skins. I understand that it's a priviledge to use T+, not a right, and as I stated elsewhere, I truly appreciate srs for giving us this program in the first place. However, a clearly stated expiration date in the future versions (if any) will provide much needed certainty so that people can make more intelligent choices and decisions on whether or not to downloand and work on this program.
This is nothing more than a simple expression of my personal feelings on this issue. And I again salute srs for this program and the skinners for making it more beautiful.
T
Well....I'm keeping the software on my iPaq and on 1/1/2005 I'm going to start using it again! :wink:
There are plenty of less functional alternatives to use till then that I PAID for.
Now, can we all lighten up?
rebecker says:
QuoteWell....I'm keeping the software on my iPaq and on 1/1/2005 I'm going to start using it again!
There are plenty of less functional alternatives to use till then that I PAID for.
Now, can we all lighten up?
Not so, rebecker. Maybe it's just on my toshiba, but it's not that T+ will funciton again in 2005. It actually follows the same pattern as it does now, namely, it works in the first two months of 2004, then, stops. The same thing happens when you change the date to 2005. It comes back in the first two months of 2005, and then goes out again. The same with 2006. I have tried this several times (including soft-resets) on my toshiba. Unless I am doing something wrong, or my toshiba is doing something wrong, you won't get that lucky! In fact, I'd appreciate if other people try this on your own pdas, and see whether T+ follows the same pattern as it does on mine.
Thnx.
T
Oh well, as I said:
QuoteThere are plenty of less functional alternatives to use ... that I PAID for.
-Bob-
How about paying a little something for a 12-month release of TodayPlus? http://www.dark-mojo.com/todayplus/viewtopic.php?t=1372