Feature Creep

[ambler]

Look at it this way. Say he'd called the latest release "1.0" (though not perfect, it seems reasonably stable), and it had no expiration date. Then, say he walked away. That would leave us with what is (in my opinion) a plugin that is already far superior to journal bar & battery pack.

That would be fine by me. The performance would not be quite as good as we know it could be and there would be a few minor known bugs but all of that could be addressed in bug fix releases if SRS chose to continue. It would mean that Fishboy's excellent command reference could be released and actually refer to the current edition because he wouldn't be holding off waiting for 0.12.0 as he is at the moment. The other community members who have written getting started guides and the like would know that their documentation refered to the same version as the command reference i.e. the current version. Skinners would all be writing skins for the current version without worrying about having to completely rewrite them for the next beta that may or may mot be released before they even finish. Users in general (including Brightlight) would be happy because there is finally a package, with documentation, that provides a solid foundation that they feel is worthwhile investing some time in to work out how to use this wonderful tool without the fear of everything changing yet again so that they are back to square one - AND - You would be happy because there would be no time limits.

Pocket PC news sites would be able post the good news that TodayPlus is finally out of beta and version 1.0 has been released, with a link to Eitel's excellent community site (here!). This would generate renewed interest and stimulate discussion and the TodayPlus community could once again be the vibrant and excited group we all remember from a few months ago.

I'd better stop before I get carried away  

I'm not sure what the implication is there. As I stated (and as you agreed), srs is under no obligation to continue with TP...

Nobody in this thread has stated, suggested, implied or even hinted that SRS has any obligation to do anything at all. I really don't understand why you keep bringing this up.

[dasilva]

Good points, Dasilva.... Thanks for that info.

Your very welcome JK... -David

[Scotty]

I'll probably get flamed.....

Not by me.......I agree with your comments. As you said, and as I and several others have posted in the fora over the past couple of weeks, it is, indeed, time to move on. If others choose to abandon the program, that's their choice. Let's just hope that, after the recent flak, srs isn't amongst them.

All the best..............Scotty

[Scotty]

SRS: great work, I really like the product. Thank you!

P.S. I just downloaded 0.11.0 version and reinstalled it. Does anybody know when it will expire?

JK27 - according to the 4th post in this thread

http://www.dark-mojo.com/todayplus/viewtopic.php?t=1290&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

it expires on 29th February 2004.

All the best......................Scotty

[BrightLight]

You may be party to information with which I am not familiar - but I thought that srs had no intention of taking TP commercial. I understood that he had committed to its being freeware. And if it's freeware, I feel that the rules are different.

Unfortunately in many respects, the rules *aren't* different.

SRS has said several times that there is "no intention of taking TP commercial".  I wasn't trying to imply that.  I was simply making the observation that SRS simply doesn't want to bothered with the drudgery, "scutwork" and focus required to tie up the loose ends.  Given a choice I would guess that most developers would prefer to work on that next challenging feature than working on tying up the loose ends.  

For whatever reason, SRS simply has decided not to take this next step.

I would happily throw "money in the till" if we could simply get SRS to commit to some level of consistent support and a reasonable end game.  
This is much more preferable to "freeware".  Unfortunately "freeware" isn't necessarily "free".  In my case, any time that I have invested in this program (am I am nowhere close to others in this forum) vastly exceeds "free".  Do the math yourself.  Take a program like Journal Bar.  Simply divide $15 or so by the hours you invest (even as a user).

I don't know how others value their time, but a "commercial" version of this software would be vastly cheaper and superior than chasing some type of nebulous, meandering "freeware".

It doesn't help that the code itself is not open source and controlled by one individual who supports it at their whim.  The program has time and time again exhibited its potential.  Without some type of commitment however, it is worth *squat*.  

Look at it this way. Say he'd called the latest release "1.0" (though not perfect, it seems reasonably stable), and it had no expiration date. Then, say he walked away. That would leave us with what is (in my opinion) a plugin that is already far superior to journal bar & battery pack.

I would have no problem with the current version *as is* if the expiration date were removed (with SRS's blessing).

This is a symbiotic relationship and I have no desire to kowtow to SRS simply to gain some crumbs

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=kowtow

kow·tow  (P)  Pronunciation Key  (kou-tou, koutou)

intr.v. kow·towed, kow·tow·ing, kow·tows
To kneel and touch the forehead to the ground in expression of deep respect, worship, or submission, as formerly done in China.

To show servile deference.

I am just amazed by individuals who feel compelled to "bend over backwards" to try to placate SRS.  SRS should feel honored that there is such a fervent group of active supporters.  The current indifference escapes me.  Personally I am not going to erect a statue to honor SRS until the "job is done".  

I don't feel that I am in a position to demand anything of srs (or of any other freeware developer).

Unfortunately, given the level of support and contribution given by this forum I would have to respectfully disagree.

Like you, I am disappointed with srs' recent silence on this (and every other other) topic. I hope he returns, but phrases such as "leave the playground an (sic) take his ball home" can't help.

If SRS is not willing to make some kind of definitive statement regarding the future of this program, it is frankly not worth *anyone's time*.  

SRS if you are listening, you can easily "right the ship" by simply providing some type of definitive plan for TodayPlus.  Leaving the TodayPlus community in the dark will simply hasten the process of "dying on the vine".

-BL

P.S. Yikes... how much money have I chewed up simply writing this reply

[BrightLight]

I would seriously miss TP if it goes away, but frankly I think this topic has been hammered to death, I think SRS gets the idea already. I think it's time to let go and move on.

Ducking -David

Until SRS makes some type of definitive statement, I don't know how we can "move on"   .

-BL

[Scotty]

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=kowtow

kow·tow  (P)  Pronunciation Key  (kou-tou, koutou)

intr.v. kow·towed, kow·tow·ing, kow·tows
To kneel and touch the forehead to the ground in expression of deep respect, worship, or submission, as formerly done in China.

To show servile deference.  

I'm glad you looked it up. I already knew what it meant, which is why I questioned your use of the word. Although you may, somewhere in these fora, find some vague evidence of such behavior, that is simply not true of the great majority of the posts supporting srs. Many people here have simply refused to excoriate him for his inclusion of an expiration date (which is common in beta software); and have refused to take the position that we can demand anything from him (as someone wrote, TP is not community property, it's srs' property). So, your use of the word kowtow was inappropriate, as is the similar statement:

I am just amazed by individuals who feel compelled to "bend over backwards" to try to placate him

I will address my final comments to two quotes from your posts:

It isn't the only deal in town and frankly my time is worth more than this

The lack of communication has simply ruined my desire to even use the program.

The obvious question: why do you return to these fora?

OK, now I am going to take Fishboy's advice, in another thread, to heart. From now, I'll stop responding to posts such as these. For many months, this site was a positive place to visit, and with luck, those of us who still desire to use the program can help it remain so.

Scotty

[Timmy]

[quote="Scotty] For many months, this site was a positive place to visit, and with luck, those of us who still desire to use the program can help it remain so.
Scotty[/quote]

Oké, Scotty: these are the good words!!! I agree with it! This wàs a positive forum, and that must it be again!!!

Timmy

[Morpheus]

I think this thread has gone Off-Topic to a certain degree. It originally started as a relatively positive forward looking thread, which whilst containing some constructive criticism was not a whinge. Now it has unfortunately turned into the latter.

Personally I think it is time for people to just accept the fact that it has an expiration or stop using it. At the end of the day srs has written the program and can ultimately chose to package it or not package it in any way he desires.  People may have some preferences and I thinbk these have benn well covered so lets all get back to using TP and the more typical support type questions.

Morpheus

[dasilva]

Until SRS makes some type of definitive statement, I don't know how we can "move on"   .-BL

BL - it's simple. Folks that like or don't like the way things are going can move on. Things are as they are, they likely will not change if they haven't so far. So one way or the other, some can "move on" and continue with TP, others can "move on" away from TP because it doesn't meet their needs / expectations.

-David

[ralawrence]

It would be great if the Today Plus team could begin to work toward a feature freeze and resist the urge to add that next new wiz-bang feature (i.e. feature creep).

I've written to srs with a proposal to use his coding skills to help me develop a "light" framework which will allow other developers (eVC++ but mainly eVB) the ability to write today screens.

The advantage to this approach is that it allows the many eVB coders out there to put together simple small Today screen applications - with lots of different functionality.

We've swapped a few messages on here but I haven't heard from him in a while.

Not quite the answer to your question, but something to think about.

[BrightLight]

Until SRS makes some type of definitive statement, I don't know how we can "move on"   .-BL

BL - it's simple. Folks that like or don't like the way things are going can move on. Things are as they are, they likely will not change if they haven't so far.

Unfortunately it's not "simple".  Unless SRS chooses to remove the expiration date, everyone who has chosen to install, support or use this program will be left in the dark.  There simply won't be a choice in the matter.  

Without some type of statement one way or the other by SRS, individuals are potentially throwing their efforts "out the window". As long as users (particularly newbies) are aware of this potential hurdle, I have no problem "with this limitation".

I have simply chosen to abandon the program until the future can be determined with some degree of certainty.

So one way or the other, some can "move on" and continue with TP, others can "move on" away from TP because it doesn't meet their needs / expectations.
-David

Without removing the expiration or some definitive plan for a newer version, there will be *NO* ability to "move on".

By knowing the current potential "pitfalls", people can value their effort accordingly.

BTW, I am not simply here to generate ill will.  I am passionate about the program, but am simply not willing  to "sweep issues under the rug" to placate the powers that be, given the uncertainty regarding the future of the program.  

I am just one voice in a sea of others.  Individuals are free to refute, agree or simply ignore my comments, expectations and hopes.

Burying ones head in the sand and "hoping for the best" is not my idea of improving and developing software for "the masses".

-BL