Feature Creep

[BrightLight]

Hi,

Today Plus has now been in Beta since 7/27/03:

Beta Testers for new today screen plugin wanted.
http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=85179&highlight=TodayPlus.

Since this time, srs has added a profound number of really neat, useful and flexible features.  In addition, the entire Today Plus community has jumped on the band wagon to extend and refine this capability through extensive and innovative skin development and support.

In my view however, Today Plus has reached "critical mass" in terms of its current functionality.  For many people, "less is actually more" (e.g. some users simply want weather or some other subset of functionality).

To this end:

[list=1]

• It would be great if the Today Plus team could begin to work toward a feature freeze and resist the urge to add that next new wiz-bang feature (i.e. feature creep).
  
• It would be helpful if the Today Plus community had some idea of the features planned (based on priority) for each release, to help focus and refine development through proactive feedback.  As it stands, the *general* community has no idea of what to expect.
  
• There is no apparent "end game".
  [/list:o]
  
  It should also be noted, that each new feature:
  [list=1]
  
• Adds to the Today Plus "footprint" whether it is useful to the user or not.  
  For reference, the zip files themselves have grown from 132k in 0.9.3 to 411k in 0.11.0 (not even including the .Net Framework).  I have not however verified the installed footprint.
  
• Adds to the inherent complexity
  
• Represents additional potential points of failure
  
• May require skin support/modification
  [/list:o]
  
  Comments are welcome
  
  -BL

[Yogiman]

You've got a good point ! TD+ has enough features for now, i would love it if it would work a little faster. I think the application reacts a little slow.

[gorgoroth]

I also agree with you. At first I was supporting this kind of development; now, I feel it is stuck because of the pyramidal way of working. I don't want to modify skin because it might not work in the next version. The update process, which was the first goal for this plugin, cannot be really mastered. I'm not talking about the refresh button, but you can have variable results depending on the fact you are syncing with AS or WIFI.

This project was great. It might be dying if features are always moving.

Please do not place the debate on the fact that you can or cannot do a specific task. We are talking about the lack of definite goal here

[Scotty]

This is a terrific app, and it continues to evolve and improve. The footprint is bigger than it used to be, but a substantial chunk of that is down to the appearance of config.exe - which, I think, was a good idea. Even so, I don't think that the footprint of v11 is too big (and the footprint in internal memory would be reduced if we could place selected TP materials on removable media - one feature that's been requested, and hopefully will be in a future version). Yes, version 11 is a little slow to respond, but do you know that's related to size / features? As I recall, srs changed the program a little, and it became somewhat less responsive to screen taps; he wrote that he should be able to fix this http://www.dark-mojo.com/todayplus/viewtopic.php?t=1134&highlight=.

This app is far superior to the OmegaOne products (Battery Pack, Journal Bar), and srs deserves a great deal of credit for its development.  I don't really see why there has to be a definite goal, or a plan for an end game. I am happy with how things have been going. Bottom line, IMHO, is that it's up to srs. If he wants to call it quits, make it commercial, or whatever, so be it. But if he wants to continue tweaking it, adding features, and so on, that's great.

So, I support ongoing development. BUT, I think that it would be nice if srs got rid of expiration dates on the program. That way, if someone liked (say) version 10.2, and decided to stick with that, he/she would be able to do so. And it would (at least in part) address the concerns of those who are worried about feature creep - they could just stick with the older versions of the program, and ignore new features. However, as it currently stands, users are forced to either (i) upgrade to the current version or (ii) become non-users after the expiration date. This isn't too cool, especially since (I suspect) many users have spent considerable time fiddling with their settings, without ever realizing that there was an expiration date which could render their time and effort essentially useless!!!

All the best.....................Scotty

[Morpheus]

I have to agree as well, I think that at present time should perhaps be spent ironing out those little bugs and inconsistencies and working on improving the configuration app rather than adding lots of new features. At the end of the day TP cannot be everything for everybody and an attempt to do that would make it unnecessarily large.

I would also hope that SRS removes the expiration feature or provides an unlock code to override this for people who want to stick at an earlier version (obviously without any support from SRS which isn't along the lines of upgrade and then tell me if you have a problem). The problem is that modifying skin files even for personal customisation can take a while especially when the skin has also changed between versions and it is not always convenient to do that before hitting the potential expiry date in the short term and feature wise some people simply wont be interested in the new features and may prefer to have an older (and probably smaller) executable

just my tuppence worth,

Morpheus

[tundrwd]

I agree as well.  Speaking as a developer - it's easier to improve an existing release, it's harder when everything is in flux all the time.  You are then allowed to correct bugs in the released version (merging them in with the next version), and continue the evolution of the product.

Has anyone else noticed something interesting?  The number of skins posted to this board?  3 months ago there was a profusion of skins available, now, only about 5 that seem to be bumped along to the latest release.

Methinks people got tired of changing the skin everytime a release came out.

It's time for a stable release.  (I'm still having some RSS problems filling memory up occasionally).

[ambler]

This app is far superior to the OmegaOne products (Battery Pack, Journal Bar), and srs deserves a great deal of credit for its development.  I don't really see why there has to be a definite goal, or a plan for an end game...

Today plus is in beta, the definite goal or end game of any beta testing program is the 1.0 release (the current release is beta 0.11.0 not 11.0). That doesn't mean that development stops or that no additional features can be added in future releases.

...I am happy with how things have been going. Bottom line, IMHO, is that it's up to srs. If he wants to call it quits, make it commercial, or whatever, so be it. But if he wants to continue tweaking it, adding features, and so on, that's great...

At this stage we are all beta testers, the point of beta testing is to arrive at a stable release with a fixed feature set. Once that is achieved and there is a line in the sand that all users are aware of you have version 1.0 and further development continues from there.

...So, I support ongoing development. BUT, I think that it would be nice if srs got rid of expiration dates on the program. That way, if someone liked (say) version 10.2, and decided to stick with that, he/she would be able to do so. And it would (at least in part) address the concerns of those who are worried about feature creep - they could just stick with the older versions of the program, and ignore new features. However, as it currently stands, users are forced to either (i) upgrade to the current version or (ii) become non-users after the expiration date. This isn't too cool, especially since (I suspect) many users have spent considerable time fiddling with their settings, without ever realizing that there was an expiration date which could render their time and effort essentially useless!!!

If there was a fixed version 1.0 release there would be no need for the expiration dates, they are part of the beta process.

It seems to me that what Brightlight is suggesting and what you desire are really the same thing. You both want a stable current release with a feature set that is nailed down so that everybody knows what they are dealing with, and you both want development to continue from there.

[Scotty]

It seems to me that what Brightlight is suggesting and what you desire are really the same thing. You both want a stable current release with a feature set that is nailed down so that everybody knows what they are dealing with, and you both want development to continue from there.

Where did I say I wanted a feature set that is "nailed down"? On the contrary, I said that I was happy with how things had been going. And I don't really see what your explanation of what "beta" means to you has to do with plans for an end game. Sure, the software is currently beta, but does that mean that srs has an OBLIGATION to produce a 1.0 release? I don't think he has any such obligation. As I said above, srs is the boss here, and this is freeware; whatever he wants to do is fine with me. As I also noted above, it would have been nice if he hadn't included expiration dates, so that "beta testers" could have stayed with the version they preferred - or with the final version (even if it's still a "beta" in your terminology). I AM concerned, though, that with the many carping posts around here in the past few weeks, srs may be sufficiently PO-d that he won't do any upgrading at all. In which case, call it what you will, TP 11 (0.11.0) may be the last release....

All the best.............Scotty

[jhollin1138]

I AM concerned, though, that with the many carping posts around here in the past few weeks, srs may be sufficiently PO-d that he won't do any upgrading at all. In which case, call it what you will, TP 11 (0.11.0) may be the last release....

I have had the same fear for some time now.  With everyday without a post from srs, or a release of an update since December 18, I am concerned that my worse fear maybe true.  Let's all hope that srs has just been very with busy with his schoolwork, and a new update is pending.   If not, I am sure this whole debate will be for not.  

[BrightLight]

On the contrary, I said that I was happy with how things had been going.

Unfortunately many are not...  After awhile a moving target is simply self-defeating.  Branch the code and move on.....

There is an order of magnitude difference between *delivering* a product and simply providing a *prototype*.

Anyone who has every developed software comes to the reality that delivering the last 10% of the product is 50% of the work.  Frankly it is often grunt work to finish a product off.  It isn't necessarily fun or challenging.

In my eyes, SRS simply doesn't want to be aggravated with the "details" of providing a commercial product due to other obligations.  As a result. if it isn't "fun" anymore, why bother with a freeware version?  

And I don't really see what your explanation of what "beta" means to you has to do with plans for an end game. Sure, the software is currently beta, but does that mean that srs has an OBLIGATION to produce a 1.0 release?  I don't think he has any such obligation. As I said above, srs is the boss here, and this is freeware; whatever he wants to do is fine with me.

Frankly in my estimation, until the feature set stabilizes, there is *NO* incentive to develop/support TodayPlus.  I have absolutely no desire to keep reinventing the wheel.

There is absolutely NO OBLIGATION for SRS to do ANYTHING.  These are constructive suggestions to keep Today Plus on track.  I have been doing software development on the order of 20 YEARS (for startups and major corporations) and have some idea of what I am talking about.

If SRS wants to "leave the playground an take his ball home", I have no problem with it.  It would just be a "professional" courtesy to let the TodayPlus community know of SRS's intentions.

As I also noted above, it would have been nice if he hadn't included expiration dates, so that "beta testers" could have stayed with the version they preferred - or with the final version (even if it's still a "beta" in your terminology). I AM concerned, though, that with the many carping posts around here in the past few weeks, srs may be sufficiently PO-d that he won't do any upgrading at all. In which case, call it what you will, TP 11 (0.11.0) may be the last release....

At this point so what?

The lack of communication has simply ruined my desire to even use the program.  Uncertainty attracts strange bedfellows.

This is a symbiotic relationship and I have no desire to kowtow to SRS simply to gain some crumbs.  It isn't the only deal in town and frankly my time is worth more than this.

I look at the time that LordTwisted, Eitel and others have invested in this project and sometimes I simply shake my head.  SRS invited the TodayPlus community in and now simply abandons it (or simply leaves it in the dark).  

Frankly, that sucks .

I use to see alot of promise in this application, but this vacuum of communication has simply left me disenchanted.

-BL

[ya1950]

I'm finding myself in a strange place here. On one hand, as I have stated elsewhere, I didn't have a problem with the expiration dates as so many others have had. I'm also not bothered by this program being a continuous beta which keeps improving. I'm not even bothered by having to update my skin every time a new version comes out since the features of the new version make the update worth it, at least for me. For me this project is fun - fun trying to understand the code and then develop a skin that suits my needs for my machine. As I see it, this entire forum has grown out of a lot of free time and effort that srs has given to develop Today+ and he has put in much, much more time and effort that I ever will in beta testing the program.

At the same time I am feeling the uncertainty of where this project is going. I have some new skinning ideas but I'm reluctant take the time to develop them until I'm sure that Today+ will continue past the Feb 29 expiration date of the current version. If srs (or one of the other folks who are in touch with him) could clarify where he stands on this it would certainly motivate me to continue working, posting, etc.

Having said this - I'm grateful to srs for all the fun I've had with this program up to now and I can certainly understand any direction he decides to take.

ya1950

[Scotty]

In my eyes, SRS simply doesn't want to be aggravated with the "details" of providing a commercial product due to other obligations.

You may be party to information with which I am not familiar - but I thought that srs had no intention of taking TP commercial. I understood that he had committed to its being freeware. And if it's freeware, I feel that the rules are different.

Look at it this way. Say he'd called the latest release "1.0" (though not perfect, it seems reasonably stable), and it had no expiration date. Then, say he walked away. That would leave us with what is (in my opinion) a plugin that is already far superior to journal bar & battery pack.

This is a symbiotic relationship and I have no desire to kowtow to SRS simply to gain some crumbs

I'm not sure what the implication is there. As I stated (and as you agreed), srs is under no obligation to continue with TP. Do you mean that people who refuse to flay srs for including an expiration date; or who don't feel that they should be making demands of someone who has provided nice software, free; are "kowtowing"? If so, you & I have a different understanding of the word. I don't feel that I am in a position to demand anything of srs (or of any other freeware developer).

Like you, I am disappointed with srs' recent silence on this (and every other other) topic. I hope he returns, but phrases such as "leave the playground an (sic) take his ball home" can't help.

All the best....................Scotty

[JK27]

Well said, Brightlight. I installed an earlier version of TodayPlus and was VERY happy with it. I don't even know what version it was, but the executable was dated 10/31/03. I'm definitely one of those people that wants to install a program and forget about it.

After the New Year, TodayPlus no longer worked. It wasn't until a week or two later, I found out on Brighthand that it had an expiration date built-in. What's up with that? It was working great for me -- and I had configured it just the way I wanted it. Now I need to download, reconfigure and ... wait for a new expiration date????

I like the idea of capping any new functionality OR being able to download and/or install only specific modules for it. Weather, RSS, Agenda, World Clocks, Battery, etc.

Bottom line: I don't think I'll reinstall if it will just expire again and I need to reconfigure yet again.

[dasilva]

I'll probably get flamed, but here's my take.

The beta testers provide testing, and their payoff is getting to use the program during the beta period.  In all beta programs I've participated in, this has been the my experience. All have had timeouts, and the formal company beta agreements all had a ND agreement with the inclusion of a declaration that the company could discontinue the beta and not produce the product without explanation. I might not like that if I liked the program, but that's the way it was.

I can sympathize with the users' views on the expiration and frequent skin update issues, I got bit too. Noting these issues is a good thing, having tons of folks ragging on the issue - even though it is their right to do so - gives the developer little incentive to continue. If it were me, I would find myself forgetting about the project without realising it and focusing my energies on other areas of my life.

I would seriously miss TP if it goes away, but frankly I think this topic has been hammered to death, I think SRS gets the idea already. I think it's time to let go and move on.

Ducking -David

[JK27]

Good points, Dasilva. I, personally, have never been involved in "beta testing" per se. As such, I had no idea that time-outs in the different versions were standard operating procedure. I feel better after you tell me that this is normal. Thanks for that info. There may be lots of people in this boat (who don't know about these types of things) because TodayPlus got (and is getting) broad exposure on Brighthand -- where many users, like me, are not all that knowledgeable about beta software and testing.

SRS: great work, I really like the product. Thank you!

P.S. I just downloaded 0.11.0 version and reinstalled it. Does anybody know when it will expire?