TodayPlus screen disappeared

[srs]

It doesn't leave a good taste in folks' mouths to continue testing and supporting a beta when it up and expires on them without prior notice.

I don't see what you're whining about, since you were neither testing nor supporting the beta.

[srs]

I think alot of you are missing the point. If I knew that I was going to be a beta tester for this program thing would defiinitely be different.

this really doesn't bode well for your "point"....

What SRS has gotten from us is free labor. Sure we have had the opportunity to test the new software... and some of us have taken some pretty big hits in the way of unrecoverable crashes on our system.

and I suppose you haven't gotten any free labor from me ?  you were also warned about the risks involved, so I'm not apologising anymore for crashes, expecially since you apparently don't want to even update your version.  And I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be here if you didn't find the program useful and have gotten some use from it...

This is acceptable, since we were assuming that we were working to achieve a finished product that was going to be shared by all. The point is that I am being used a beta tester in the most sneaky way with no compensation for it. I am sure that most beta testers are offered the finished product free for there efforts or more unlikely a large discount.

you want compensation ? for what ? what service have you provided ? It can't be for being a beta tester because you've been a lousy one who hasn't bothered to upgrade to the latest version.  It can't be for helping out at the forums, because you havent posted suggestions or bug reports or even helped others with problems.  So what exactly have you provided me or the TodayPlus community, that you feel that you should be compensated for ?  You seem to place quite a high value on the "services" you've provided...

At least they are aware that fact their services are being used and are being compensated. In this case "IT SEEMS" we are given the impression that the software is free for use, when in fact we are acting as beta testers for the programmer.

this really doesn't bode well for your reading comprehnsion at all.....

would wait for the finished product and consider purchasing it... at this point I am really not to happy about the apparent business practices happening here... and will no longer support this project as it stands.

I don't see a business here....  as for not supporting it, since you were a parasite, we're all probably better off now that you're gone.

[srs]

It dosen't make sense. And all the ideas i have come up with and the ideas of other poeple, Thast part of the programe.

feel free to take your ideas and program them into a program you write...

We should have full working copys for ever. I put to much time and efort for the betas to expire.

it doesn't compare to the time or effort I've put it...

If srs is going to sell it are we going to get full non expiring copys?
I am so bummed about this all of the things i created, Maybe if srs explains why and lets us know whats going on. is he going to sell it wich he said it is freewere. Whats up srs please respond.

I don't know where you're getting the idea that I'm going to sell it...  I don't think I could even if I wanted to considering that Eitel hosts the site, and that most of the buttons are derived from Lightman's work...

If you're so bummed, you can take all the things you've created and leave.

[jhollin1138]

I really don't want to repeat what has already been mentioned but I feel I must!

1) I have been a beta tester for TodayPlus since nearly the beginning when the Brighthand thread was still very small.  I have experienced all the joy and suffering that being a beta tester requires.

2) I am not always quick to update to the latest version, schedule sometimes doesn't allow it, but I always update to the latest version as soon as I am able.  I have tweaked and re-tweaked the slider skin so many times; I know most of my changes by heart.   Yes, it is a pain, but that is the job of a beta tester.

3) I have always reported bugs, offered support and suggestions to help the further development of TodayPlus.  It is tough sometimes to find the time, but again that is the job of a beta tester.

4) Yes we are giving srs "free labor" to further develop this program.  As he mentioned, he has given us "free labor" to develop the program.  SRS asked for beta testers, and currently over 1000 people have responded.  Maybe everyone wasn't aware that the program was still in beta, but if you look long enough around it should be clear that it is a beta.

5) TodayPlus is currently freeware and srs has stated that it will always be freeware.  He wrote the program and ultimately can do anything he wishes to do with it.  He may chose to no longer develop the program further and soon all version my expire and stop working (I hope not  ).

[joelw135]

All this back and forth bantering is a waste of good time. Enjoy what we do, and don't get an ulcer. My two and 1/2 cents!

[swm1605]

Hi all -

I came to this site from ppcfreeware.com and if I didn't know TodayPlus was beta from the version number (0.9x) it was certainly made plain on the site itself. I don't believe anyone can honestly say they were not aware this was beta software.

I have been involved in many beta projects, both large and small and srs is quite correct when he says that it is common practice to expire betas. It makes sense - you don't want developers fussing over supporting features or bugs that have been changed or fixed in later versions.

Good beta programs depend on testers updating to the newer versions as they are released to keep the flow of information back to the developers. I religiously update as the newer versions are released - and report back with as much analysis as I can on the problems I find, hoping that my feedback will in some small way help srs make a fantastic plugin even better.

Of course, there are frustrations: sometimes beta testing results in loss of data, hard resets etc. A newer beta doesn't always mean a better beta - a new feature may introduce bugs or break features that were working before, the development team may add debug code into a section they are having problems with, causing it to run slower and so on. But that's the price you pay for being a part of the development effort.

srs puts in a tremendous amount of work and asks little in return - one must assume that he does it for the joy if creating and of providing such useful software to ot ers.

I find the carping, questioning of srs' integrity and talk of "compensation" quite offensive. My hope is that this forum will "lose" some of the "parasites" srs refers to and we can focus on improving the software.

This is beta software - if you want to use it then accept that you are offering your time and the integrity of your Pocket PC as guinea pigs and hang on for the ride. If you don't - then wait until srs releases 1.1.

srs - please keep up the good work - there are many of us who support you and are truly enjoying the ride, bumps, potholes and all!

[Eitel]

:yeahthat:    

[Lordtwisted]

Lordtwisted wrote:

It dosen't make sense. And all the ideas i have come up with and the ideas of other poeple, Thast part of the programe.


feel free to take your ideas and program them into a program you write...

 I could but that would be sensless You'r programe is to good.

We should have full working copys for ever. I put to much time and efort for the betas to expire.
it doesn't compare to the time or effort I've put it...

 I never said you didn't put alot of time and effort in the program, I am just saying i put in alot of time and effort to. Not as much as you but still proply ONE of the most here besides you. Thats something. I just don't see why you couldn't leave the betas running. I under stand the older betas with major bugs but like 11 and up?

Quote:
If srs is going to sell it are we going to get full non expiring copys?
I am so bummed about this all of the things i created, Maybe if srs explains why and lets us know whats going on. is he going to sell it wich he said it is freewere. Whats up srs please respond.


I don't know where you're getting the idea that I'm going to sell it... I don't think I could even if I wanted to considering that Eitel hosts the site, and that most of the buttons are derived from Lightman's work...

Cool thats all you had to say that it will still be freeware, you wouldn't respond. Ever body was talking about you are going to sell it, and that the beta expired, that just seems weird when it's freeware. and i do other beta testing to and they don't expire. The proplem with this is to many poeple where brought in. 1000+ poeple beta testing, Thats kinda of a open program. Beta testing is almost 90% limited to a certine amount of poeple.

If you're so bummed, you can take all the things you've created and leave

 Dam srs i can't be bummed. Just couse you'r mad don't take it out on me for speaking my mind. theres other poele that feel the same way but i guese to scare to say something.

I find the carping, questioning of srs' integrity and talk of "compensation" quite offensive. My hope is that this forum will "lose" some of the "parasites" srs refers to and we can focus on improving the software.

swm1605,

  I hope you'r not talking to me becouse if you are you don't have a clue of what you'r talking about. I been here pretty much from the start. and proply did more work then anyone here, besides a few of course srs, etiel,lightman,blazingwolf and maybee a couple others. And if i didn't do more work and time then them , then i am right there with them.(exept srs) look back in brighthand and here and you will see.

I came to this site from ppcfreeware.com and if I didn't know TodayPlus was beta from the version number (0.9x) it was certainly made plain on the site itself. I don't believe anyone can honestly say they were not aware this was beta software.

ever body knows it's beta.

srs puts in a tremendous amount of work and asks little in return - one must assume that he does it for the joy if creating and of providing such useful software to ot ers.

I aggree, Same goes for me as a skinner/programmer.


Lordtwisted

[swm1605]

Lordtwisted wrote:

Cool thats all you had to say that it will still be freeware, you wouldn't respond. Ever body was talking about you are going to sell it, and that the beta expired, that just seems weird when it's freeware. and i do other beta testing to and they don't expire. The proplem with this is to many poeple where brought in. 1000+ poeple beta testing, Thats kinda of a open program. Beta testing is almost 90% limited to a certine amount of poeple.

Actually, as you are well aware there are two beta programs running here: a public beta release represented by 0.11.0 and the private beta release represented by 0.12.0. This is very common practice, with a small, focused group of testers really stretching the software and the larger, public group providing a wider variety of software and hardware configurations than can ever be available to any development team. Consider Microsoft - public betas from MS can be distributed to tens of thousands of people.


LordTwisted wrote:

swm1605,

  I hope you'r not talking to me becouse if you are you don't have a clue of what you'r talking about. I been here pretty much from the start. and proply did more work then anyone here, besides a few of course srs, etiel,lightman,blazingwolf and maybee a couple others. And if i didn't do more work and time then them , then i am right there with them.(exept srs) look back in brighthand and here and you will see.

Carefully rereading my post I can discern absolutely no reference to you. I am therefore somewhat surprised that you have made the leap onto the high horse so quickly. Rest assured that I (graphically challenged as I am) rely on the efforts of all of the skinners to get the most out of TodayPlus. In fact I am using LTwisted 0.11.0 with the 0.12.0 private beta right now. However, I did quote srs on the term "parasite" - note that a parasite gives nothing back to its host while a "symbiote" lives in a mutually beneficial relationship with its host. Are you a parasite? No - you give back to this community by providing skins and assistance on skinning to others. Was I therefore referring to you? Obviously not, you symbiote you!.

I cannot agree with you that the betas should not expire - beta testing by definition means obtaining and testing the latest released version and one of the ways to force people to move to the newer version is to expire the older version. In fact, if I were srs, I would remove from the forum all attachments of previous versions whenever a new version is released. I have been involved in beta testing programs where the developers would simply not respond to any bug reports unless that bug could be shown to be present in the latest released build or, if they did respond, it was with the terse message to "upgrade to the latest version and try it again!".

srs puts in a tremendous amount of work and asks little in return - one must assume that he does it for the joy if creating and of providing such useful software to ot ers.  

I aggree, Same goes for me as a skinner/programmer.

But in an earlier post you said:

We should have full working copys for ever

Seems to me you are expecting something a tiny, tiny leeettle bit more than the "joy of creating" and a round of applause.

Jokes aside, I truly think that srs will find it increasingly difficult to keep this software as freeware - I fully expect that MS will come calling at some point in the future to jazz up the Today screen for WM200x. Eventually, srs will receive an offer that he simply cannot refuse and this software will go commercial. I just hope that I am able to purchase it at a decent price at that time! Way down here in Africa, software priced in dollars is prohibitively expensive!

regards

swm1605

[Lordtwisted]

Quote:
Quote:

srs puts in a tremendous amount of work and asks little in return - one must assume that he does it for the joy if creating and of providing such useful software to ot ers.  



I aggree, Same goes for me as a skinner/programmer.


But in an earlier post you said:

Quote:
We should have full working copys for ever


Seems to me you are expecting something a tiny, tiny leeettle bit more than the "joy of creating" and a round of applause.

I wasn't expecting nothing. I did not know the betas where going to expire. So i Thought I had a full working copy. So then i expected nothing but aknoledgement. and around of silent applause. I would have never wrote anything if srs ansererd my pm. i asked if the secret beta testers could have full working copys, i don't see anything wrong with that. i don't care if it had a few bugs, i never complained about sofreset or anything. I just like making things and figuring out things. thats why i got in to this buissness 15 years ago. It would have been difrent if srs told us, we should have been told that the betas would expire, don't you think that to. Or maybee i am just f@&ked up. lol

srs refers to and we can focus on improving the software

This is why I said that, srs only ansered me and, that other dude wich has nothing to do with me, so i thought you where talking about me. i am not on a high horse, I don't even have a horse. i guese if i did it would be high.lmao

To be honest with you i have nothing but respect for what srs does, cuse he does it so well, and it's what i love to do.


Lordtwisted    

[Yogiman]

I think SRS is doing a wonderfull job, i just hope he doesn't quit after all this "wining".

[Nielsracing]

I just want to post my opinion since srs is attacked by a couple of crazy people who cannot understand that it is a Beta version!!!
Why would srs called his program 0.9.8, 0.11 etc.
When you download the program, you will see that there are new features, bug fixes etc Enough indications that is is a Beta!!!

Srs did a great job. I was pretty shocked as well when suddenly Todayplus dissapeared from my Todayscreen (imagine that this program is absolutely indispensable). But I downloaded the newer versions and everything was solved, and more important, more features

Srs doesn't make newer versions just for fun... It is logical that each time, there's a new version, you try it, and if there are problems, bugs etc. post it in this (great) forum so that srs can improve and improve.

So some of you who don't like being a beta tester, go away and post your problems elsewhere.

I hope that srs continues to develop this wonderful program, I thinks lots of people find it indispensable!!!

[LightMan]

I just want to post my opinion since srs is attacked by a couple of crazy people who cannot understand that it is a Beta version!!!

You're really missing the point here. Most critics made here were properly fundamented and the users who made them are quite sane, not a bunch of crazy people.
We all know this is beta (duh!) and as all have referred so many times, we appreciate the work that srs has put into this, no doubt about that.

The main issue is that he SHOULD have told users about the expiration and he didn't. It is you (and some others) who are missing the point of the complaints here.
If we skinners/testers/etc invest so much time in contributing to this program, we are allowed to know ALL the conditions under which the program will function. Period.

I won't go any further into this, I just felt I had to rebate this ridiculous idea about this criticism being non-sense or crazy. It is not.

Having said that, I hope after srs makes his point here, we can all put this behind us and go on using this great program without further problems.

[LawofA]

I woke this morning before leaving for work and after my PDA have completed its update. I continued on my commute to work. My dismay is that TP disappears whenever I click any of the icons.

I thought something was wrong with my skin or any update of other applications. Wrong, it is TP. Everyone has been saying that the time limit is sometime in February 2004. Wrong, again, for me it is today Monday January 20, 2004.

Subsequently, I changed the date on my PDA one month back and suprise, suprise everything works.

Anyone has anything to add to this.

LawofA

[Nielsracing]

I just want to post my opinion since srs is attacked by a couple of crazy people who cannot understand that it is a Beta version!!!

You're really missing the point here. Most critics made here were properly fundamented and the users who made them are quite sane, not a bunch of crazy people.
We all know this is beta (duh!) and as all have referred so many times, we appreciate the work that srs has put into this, no doubt about that.

The main issue is that he SHOULD have told users about the expiration and he didn't. It is you (and some others) who are missing the point of the complaints here.
If we skinners/testers/etc invest so much time in contributing to this program, we are allowed to know ALL the conditions under which the program will function. Period.

I won't go any further into this, I just felt I had to rebate this ridiculous idea about this criticism being non-sense or crazy. It is not.

Having said that, I hope after srs makes his point here, we can all put this behind us and go on using this great program without further problems.

Ok, I can deal with that, I shouldn't have said " crazy people", my apologies.
But, in some posts, for example, someone wants a "compensation" because he didn't knew that it was a Beta etc, that is unfair!!!

But, I agree that srs maybe could have said  there was an expiration date. But I can only see that as a minor mistake, doesn't bother me at all. I really hope that srs continues to improve this program!!! He can also stop improving this program, and then we're not happy at all.

I think in this thread, a couple of members wrote down their opinion about this, they made their point, srs knows about it, and I suggest that we leave this thread behind!!! It's a wonderful program that puts the functionality to a higher level (if you understand what I mean )

Having said that, I hope after srs makes his point here, we can all put this behind us and go on using this great program without further problems.

Good idea