TodayPlus screen disappeared

[Ripper]

My point is that if I am going to be a beta tester for the software I would like to a least know about it. As much as I like the program... I have invested a lot of time in creating an interface that I finally like and then to find that it is crippled without warning is a little disconcerting. The reason that I did not upgrade to the new version was that I was waiting for SRS to finalize the format for the new release.

At this point I think I will pass on doing any more work until we get to a final version, so that I know what to expect. This is like being invited on a great amusement park ride and being handed a bill at the end. The rides not over... but....

[epsilonx]

SRS is doing an awesome job, as all are you who are more intimately involved in documenting and working the features.  I agree though, that people should be told if and when their beta version will expire.  I expect that this product will go commercial at some point (everyone's gotta eat) but I hope that we establish good communication about things like this before the production release is finalized.  It doesn't leave a good taste in folks' mouths to continue testing and supporting a beta when it up and expires on them without prior notice.

[Micheal]

I just want to have a version 0.9.8 that works.  I'll even gladly pay for it.  I've become dependant on this great piece of software, but I just don't have the time to relearn how to modify the interface again!  It took me days the last time.  SRS, would you consider releasing non-crippled older versions?  I will pay any reasonable price.

[Eitel]

I understand the fustration of having the beta expire but you also need to realize something.  srs is up to version 0.11.0, if you're using something older than that and don't want to update, then you're not really beta testing anymore, since all the problems you may encounter may be solved in newer versions already.

I'll going to shoot a blank here and say that IMO, that's srs way of having us move to the latest and keep helping with the program.  

Again, this is my opinion only.

[JTod]

I think the concern is not that the earlier versions expired, but rather that users did not know that they were going to expire.  That is the sticking point here.  I agree with Eitel.  If we are to help srs move this software forward we need to keep updating to the new version and providing feedback.  It would be nice to know, however, when previous releases will expire so users can be prepared.  I am sure it would cause a lot less confusion and avoid 30+ item threads about this topic.

JTod

[Micheal]

Eitel,

That's a very good point, and that's why I think he should charge for re-released previous versions.  I was very happy with .9.8.  I've read a lot about this newest version, and I still think I would prefer .9.8, even without the days of reskinning.  But if I want to stick with a previous version, then I agree, I'm of no more use to SRS.  He should receive some compensation from me.  I WANT to use his software, but I don't think I should get it for free.  

[MadTxn]

I think that old releases should expire.  Why?  Because if they don't, you'll have people trying to get support for them.  Support for bugs that have been fixed, and for functionality that already exists in future versions.  I think it's safe to assume that each version will become obsolete once new versions come out.

[Ripper]

I think alot of you are missing the point. If I knew that I was going to be a beta tester for this program thing would defiinitely be different. What SRS has gotten from us is free labor. Sure we have had the opportunity to test the new software... and some of us have taken some pretty big hits in the way of unrecoverable crashes on our system.

This is acceptable, since we were assuming that we were working to achieve a finished product that was going to be shared by all. The point is that I am being used a beta tester in the most sneaky way with no compensation for it. I am sure that most beta testers are offered the finished product free for there efforts or more unlikely a large discount. At least they are aware that fact their services are being used and are being compensated. In this case "IT SEEMS" we are given the impression that the software is free for use, when in fact we are acting as beta testers for the programmer. If I had known that the software was going to be crippled you could be assured that I would not be investing hours upon hours of my time reconfiguring files. I would wait for the finished product and consider purchasing it... at this point I am really not to happy about the apparent business practices happening here... and will no longer support this project as it stands.

Opps.. in response to Eitels comments I am not asking for any additional support of old versions other than what you would receive on any bulletin board... the way this project has been run is less than honorable...  so though I almost always agree with you... I can not follow your logic on this occassion...

If I knew this was going to be a project like PocketMVP... I would be more than happy to lend my support and push the project to a higher level... but in this case I feel that we are all being used to ulitmately feather the nest of one (or a handful) of people...

Just one more point... there was some forethought that was put into this... I just went back and loaded in my earliest version...  0.07.2 and it to has been crippled...

[Eitel]

Ripper, I'm sorry you feel that way.  In part, I'm responsible because I forgot to add on the main page that TodayPlus is still in beta development and it has been that way since the begining.


It seems that you didn't came to this board from the long thread that started at Brighthand.  srs was asking for beta testers for this excellent program and a lot of people jumped in (including me) to help him.  From there, and since the thread was growing like crazy, I have donated my web space to create this little community  were we can help srs make this a better program.  You can read more here (warning, 174 pages long):

http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?s=9b00b40cc53c2534c6b73368c43f6959&threadid=85179&highlight=todayplus

So as you can see, TodayPlus is still in beta, and again, I do apologize to all for not informing that in this site.  

[MadTxn]

I think it is clearly stated that this is beta software.

I wouldn't say we are being used as "free labor."  

I'm pretty sure that you (general you, not specific you) were warned in several places to backup your system before installing, so any crashes should be recoverable.

As for "sneaky business practices"... I don't see a business here...

[MadTxn]

The PIToday plugin was disabled as of 12/31... of course, you are right, that was always made clear.

[Lordtwisted]

Yea it kinda sucks all the work i have done ond averybody else, to have the betas expire. Why would you have a beta expire if it's freewere.

qoute from srs in brighthand on page 9

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is it freeware, or are you going to sell it?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


srs
It will be freeware.

It dosen't make sense. And all the ideas i have come up with and the ideas of other poeple, Thast part of the programe. We should have full working copys for ever. I put to much time and efort for the betas to expire. If srs is going to sell it are we going to get full non expiring copys?
I am so bummed about this all of the things i created, Maybe if srs explains why and lets us know whats going on. is he going to sell it wich he said it is freewere. Whats up srs please respond.

Lordtwisted

[srs]

SRS,

I love your program, and I realize that it's a BETA and you can make it do whatever you feel is appropriate, but I am disappointed that earlier versions become crippled after 1/1/04.  I was using 0.9.8 because I liked the way it operated and I customized the skin extensively myself.  I am not a programmer nor professional skinner, so while my changes may seem modest to some, they were extensive to me.  Now I'm told I have to upgrade to a version I don't care for and attempt to do all that work again.

well, as you point out:

1) Its a beta.
2) You're supposed to upgrade when a new version comes out.
3) If you don't like a new version, you're supposed to leave feedback on what you don't like about it, so that perhaps thinks can be improved.
4) Even though you've extensively modified the skin, you haven't bothered to post it here, nor have bothered to help others with questions.  Basically, you've taken everything, haven't contributed anything back, so what gives you the right to critize me ?

For those of us who want to keep our previous versions, would you consider re-releasing the older versions again without the internal expiration?

Thanks for your consideration.

no.  if you don't want to be a beta tester, don't download betas.

[srs]

May I ask the reason for having the beta's expire...? Is there an ulitimate plan to make this into commercial software...? I think it is a fair question considering the time that all of us are investing in the software...
Regardless you have done some very good work...

its quite standard to have betas expire.

1) Old betas will contain bugs that have been fixed in future versions.  Sometimes these bugs may be quite serious, requiring a hard reset.

2) Old betas may cause undesirable behavior on other servers.  For instance the very first version would poll the weather feed to check for an update everytime the screen was tapped.  If everyone were to continue to use the old version, I'm sure the weather feed would have been forced to shut down by now because of the bandwidth.  Older betas also allowed setting the update interval of the weather to less than 60 minues, newer version do not.

3) If I had wanted to make this commercial, and to make money:
   1) there would not be a new beta that still works available.
   2) I would probably stop adding new features, and sell it as is, or even better break it up into pieces, and sell each piece.

4) I don't know how much beta testing you've done, but most of the betas I've worked with expire.  Microsoft's betas expire.  Samurize (www.samurize.com) had betas that expire.  Objectdock (www.objectdock.net) betas expired.  these are just the first three that came to mine, and that I use, so I'm sure there are many more.

5) I would like people to use the latest versions, because I've spent a lot of time implementing new features and fixing bugs.  It annoys me greatly when people stick with old versions, because they think its better, and don't post why.  If people just stuck with old version, it diminishes the time I've spend to come up with a new version.

[srs]

My point is that if I am going to be a beta tester for the software I would like to a least know about it.

the title of the Brighthand thread is: "Beta Testers for new today screen plugin wanted."

If are ignorant of this fact, or have reading comprehension problems, its not my fault.  The fact thats its a beta is also mentioned numerous times throughout the forums and on the main page itself.

At this point I think I will pass on doing any more work until we get to a final version, so that I know what to expect. This is like being invited on a great amusement park ride and being handed a bill at the end. The rides not over... but....

you can ask for a full refund on your way out